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Sex and Singles
You Did What on the First Date?
A romantic relationship with a man can be difficult to achieve when you have sex – and that includes what Clinton did with Lewinski – on the first date.
I had lunch with a girlfriend a couple of months ago. Tammy (not her real name) is 25, smart, pretty, vivacious and in love with life. There’s just one thing that continues to baffle her: dating and relationships with men.
You see, Tammy is happily single and while she’s in no hurry to get married, she does want to have a monogamous LTR (long term relationship) with a man — but it’s just not happening. She said the men she dates are interested in her for a week or two before things sour, or they simply drop-off the radar.
Now I’m no dating coach, but I’ve been around on the planet a bit longer than Tammy so I was curious as to why this was happening to someone as likeable and attractive as Tammy – and also curious if her experience with men was typical for younger women in today’s dating world. So, I asked for more details.
She said she met men easily: at the gym, at parties, even at the grocery store. The initial spark was there for both parties, a date was made — dinner, a walk on the beach, a movie — and then I found the “smoking gun.” Tammy has sex on the first date.
Maybe I’m old fashioned, but one of my corollaries is that men lose interest fast when women appear to have little discretion about whom they sleep with. Yes, yes, yes, I know there are exceptions. People sometimes meet, have sex within hours and live the rest of their lives in romantic bliss — but it’s rarer than a blue-eyed two-headed cat!
“Auntie” Kim shared her opinion on such things with Tammy and suggested she try waiting a while before jumping into the sack with a new beau. She looked at me as if I was suggesting she go to the beach wearing Long Johns under her bikini, but agreed to give it a shot.
I saw her again this week and was anxious to hear how her “jet cooling” experiment had transpired.
“Oh nothing really changed,” she said. “I mean, I stopped having sex with them, but after a couple of dates they stop calling me, or they change and start acting like jerks.”
“So you stopped having sex — until you have a chance to get to know them and they have a chance to get to know you? And they still lose interest? ”
“Yep.”
“And how did the dates go?
“Oh, we have a great time. I really can’t understand what’s up. I guess guys are just flakey.”
I’m looking at this beautiful, charming woman, completely baffled. Could it be true? Are men in her generation really so shallow and unable to connect?
Wanting to make sure I didn’t jump to any false conclusions, I asked again, “So really, you had a great date and at the end of it, no fooling around at all?”
“Well yes,” she said, “I mean, we made out and I gave them a BJ, but we didn’t have sex.”
“What?”
Now I don’t know when oral sex became something other than “having sex” Or when a kiss on a first date happened below the waist. Maybe what transpired with Monica Lewinski during the Clinton Administration has redefined what Tammy’s generation calls, “having sex.” Seriously, is this a generational thing or just a case of “good girl gone dumb?”
On the other hand, have things really changed? Has sex become as casual as a handshake? After all, as former President Bill Clinton said, “I did not have sexual relations with that woman.” And we all know what not having sex involved in that situation.
Be sure to vote in our Singular poll this week: When Should Sex Start in a Relationship?
Kim Calvert is the editor of Singular magazine and the founder of the SingularCity social networking community. A single lifestyle expert and an outspoken champion of single people everywhere, Kim oversees the creative direction and editorial content of the magazine and online social networking community. She secures high-profile contributors and is responsible for setting and maintaining the fun, upbeat, inspirational and often humorous tone of Singular, the magazine for savvy singles.The Princess Versus the Feminist
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Until recently I was also in this girl’s position (minus the sex on the first date part). I was unlucky in the dating realm and it seemed like after awhile there might be something wrong with me. One guy I dated whoo-ed me for 4 weeks calling, texting, the whole shabang and all the sudden stopped talking to me. I found out down the road it was because I never slept with him and pushed away his advances when he tried to make a move. So is that how all men think? Not to put in the work if there is no sex involved? Needless to say I think otherwise now with my boyfriend but it had me seriously wondering for a long time.
While there are no absolutes, Dr Dennis…there is definitely some truth in what you say on the men’s side, esp. here in LA. If you don’t instantly (and magically), ‘get it right’ with absolutely no room for error, it is over. No discussion, no argument, no notice.
I had a friend whose girlfriend left him in Europe to go home (on a trip she paid for a large part of) one night, for a just a glance he gave her at dinner. He didn’t even know what the “glance” was. I’ve had one or two women vanish over something they thought I had said, only to find out weeks later that I had meant something else entirely…and what I had said was actually indeed true.
As a guy here, you lose 3 ways with that: you didn’t know you had said something that was taken a different way, you were never asked to at least take a shot at clarifying, because they already have moved on…and then 3 months later when they maybe find out differently about you…they’ve already shoved you into the ‘Friend’ box (or worse), and you don’t get the girl you thought you wanted to begin with. Over & out.
Also, I think women view this emotionally, and so much of this doesn’t matter to a lot of them. From what I see, a lot of them get asked out almost constantly, and so with a never-ending parade of guys to follow, what do they care? (Maybe I wouldn’t either!)
Obviously the ladies out there might have a different view on this, and I’m not writing to start a ‘bitch session’ among the genders. Not at all. But it’s no wonder the Single Life continues for many, no matter which side you are on here.
Hello Ken!
Thank you for your comments. They are well thought-out and very accurate. In fact, they match my research exactly save for one point; it’s also true in most other parts of the world – not just here in Los Angeles. And, it’s getting worse, not better.
I’ve actually had men that were dumped because of something they did or said in their partner’s dreams! No, I’m not kidding.
Best regards…
Dr. Dennis W. Neder
President/CEO/Executive Producer
~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.
Remington Publications
BAM! Productions
818.334.8826
http://beingaman.com
http://beingaman.tv
Publisher of “Being a Man in a Woman’s World I & II”
Producer of “BAM! TV”
Well, I *am* a dating coach (actually, dating, sex, relationship expert, but I digress) and it’s unfortunate that so few women understand men.
Here’s the reality: no man is able to connect with a woman emotionally until AFTER we’ve had sex with her. We all learn the right things to say and how to act, etc., in order to get up to and past that milestone, but get past it, we must.
This isn’t my rule, but the way – it was here long before I arrived. This is nature’s way of insuring that we get a new generation – and a new one after that. You see, love, while a fine and lofty notion isn’t necessary for a species to survive or thrive. Sex is.
One more important key: men have a built-in “shelf life” or “window of opportunity”.
The instant we meet a woman, the clock begins ticking. There’s no standard by how long that timer is set by the way – it’s different for every man. However, when the bell rings, we’ll still sleep with a woman, but she’ll never again have access to his heart. This is why we feel compelled to push for sex – to get past it so that we can attempt to have more than that with a woman.
Think back on some of the guys you’ve been with. Have you never noticed how they change right after sex? They often get fun, playful, connected and yes, sometimes sleepy too but there is an obvious change in that man. Why? Simple: once we get sex out of the way, our minds can focus on other (more important) things like whether or not we can connect with her long-term.
We’ve all heard the sad tale of the girl that held a guy off for weeks or months only to finally have sex with him and then to never hear from him again, right? Most women (and a few men!) actually think that the guy invested all that time and energy just to get into bed with her. Not so. The far more likely reality was that after sex, he finally was able to see he couldn’t connect with her the way he wanted so he ended things to continue the search for the girl he COULD have that with!
Also, according to my research, and a number of other researchers around the world, in the majority of long-term relationships (over 10 years) the couple had sex within the first 3 dates? Add to this the fact that a couple that has a great relationship but a lousy (or non-existent) sex life almost always break up. Take the same couple with a fantastic sex life, but a lousy relationship and they find a way to stay together.
The reason why men are dropping women so quickly is that they’re getting tired of so much sense of entitlement among women in the western world. Women today are huge expectations but generally deliver very little of value. They expect men to do and be absolutely everything “right” – by a script they’ve never even read and if one little mistake is made, well, it’s penance time.
Very few women even know what they have to offer men today! Consider this one question:
“What do you bring to the table?”
When I or my my students ask that question, it’s like deer-in-the-headlight time. I usually hear, “Well, I’m pretty and I’m smart”. Yeah? So what? Here in SoCal, you can’t throw a rock without hitting a woman that thinks she’s pretty and smart. What else?
I’m sorry to tell you that Tammy’s problems likely go far deeper than when she’s ready to have sex. In fact, that’s probably the one thing she DOES have to offer!
Best regards…
Dr. Dennis W. Neder
President/CEO/Executive Producer
~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.
Remington Publications
BAM! Productions
818.334.8826
http://beingaman.com
http://beingaman.tv
Publisher of “Being a Man in a Woman’s World I & II”
Producer of “BAM! TV”
@ Dennis Neder: You’d have a different point of view if you had daughters.
@Paula: I have thousands of daughters – my audience. And, I love them all.
Dennis, thank you -
I love this honesty and completely agree with (and enjoy) your wisdom from various personal studies I’ve made of men. Most women can’t get beyond their emotional natures to objective appreciate what men are honesty trying to accomplish in their pursuits. It’s a pity and something I had to learn myself. Playful, honest communication can go a long way…along with some great self awareness. But yes, it’s a bit tricky to find that in LA….hopefully not impossible :)
Jeanette
You kidding me? I wish I met a girl like your friend. When I go out on a date, I don’t do anything and let the girl decide what she is comfortable with. Then they get mad at me because they think I am not interested. That’s what happens when you try to be old fashioned and take it slow.
Most of the women I date these days are demanding sex by the second date, even when I’m not ready. How’s that for “modern mating”?
I once had a good guy friend advise me that I should go on 7 dates with a guy before anything happened beyond a kiss goodnight at the door. I tried it, and actually found that by the time I’d get to date 3, I knew if I wanted to event see them for a date 4. So better to find out if you even want to date them first before you sleep with them!